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blickling
Member
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Posted: Friday March 14th, 2008 07:11 am |
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| Could any of you experienced Mini owners advise me of what the benefits are of adding/creating negative camber at the front end of our cars. Thanks, Richard.
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blickling
Member
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Posted: Sunday March 16th, 2008 04:26 pm |
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Well there's a surprise, a couple of dozen views and no help offered, despite most regular and experienced/knowledgeable contributors having been active over the last few days!!
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chillbean
MCR Committee
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Posted: Sunday March 16th, 2008 04:58 pm |
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Maybe the people viewing have not tried this with there cars?
My Rover Cooper SPi has a negative camber set up at the front and rear. Rear end felt as if it had more grip in the corners and the back end did not want to skip when pushed hard. As for the front, the steering felt much more direct. I don't race my car so probably don't experience the full benefits, but I have noticed a difference on the twisty roads . 
Last edited on Sunday March 16th, 2008 04:58 pm by chillbean |
blickling
Member
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Posted: Sunday March 16th, 2008 06:51 pm |
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Chillbean, many thanks for taking the time to reply. Regards, Richard. BTW, like the colour of your car  .
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chillbean
MCR Committee
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Posted: Sunday March 16th, 2008 07:09 pm |
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| Think the white and black option was one of the best, and also becoming rare in decent condition now.
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Mistron
Member
| Joined: | Monday December 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 9 |
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Posted: Sunday March 16th, 2008 10:48 pm |
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I'm no expert, but as I understand it, the benefit is that as you turn in to the corner the -ve camber means the inside wheel will be closer to the verical, maximising tyre contact with the road surface - result, more grip.
The downside is that the car will have slightly less 'feel' on the straights (due to reduced tyre contact / uneven contact), and tyre wear will be uneven
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chillbean
MCR Committee
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Posted: Sunday March 16th, 2008 10:58 pm |
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| That sounds about right to me.
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blickling
Member
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Posted: Monday March 17th, 2008 06:47 am |
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| Sounds logical. Thanks Mistron. Richard
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Graham Bichard
Member
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Posted: Monday March 17th, 2008 12:55 pm |
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Mistron, would it not be the OUTSIDE wheel in a corner which would have a more vertical stance, or have I misunderstood something?
(I'm thinking the inside wheel has the weight taken off of it, by presenting the outside wheel as vertical under the cornering load you're showing the full width of the tyre when its loaded, as opposed to the tyre tucking under without negative camber. Have I misunderstood?)
Oh, and everyone knows red ones are fastest!
Last edited on Monday March 17th, 2008 12:56 pm by Graham Bichard |
DaveShreeve
Administrator
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Posted: Monday March 17th, 2008 01:22 pm |
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| If you fully analyse this I think you'll find both conditions apply. As the car corners weight transfers to the outside wheel and tries to roll over it; this brings the wheel more vertical giving a larger tyre contact patch. At the same time weight transfers off the inside wheel allowing the suspension to droop, again bringing the wheel more vertical and giving a larger contact area.
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littledude
Member
| Joined: | Wednesday November 7th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 26 |
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Posted: Wednesday March 19th, 2008 04:23 pm |
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I've neg camber front and rear on my tarmac rally car and in laymans terms it means...
Without - Turn into a roundabout with a little too much speed and the front end starts to make it's way to the outside of the bend(this is called understeer). The tyre is flexing over itself and you have less grip on the outside wheel (the inside at this point is not far off just stoping the brakes scraping on the floor as there is less weight on it)
With Neg camber bottom arms - the speed before this happens is higher as the the tyre is sitting more squarely on the surface. You have more grip. The car can corner harder and faster.
Back off suddenly mid bend or brake and the car will tuck into the bend more (the rear will begin to step out). This is called power off oversteer.
Add neg camber to the rear and this allows the back to grip more but back-off mid bend and this will induce more power-off oversteer.
This allows you to corner hard as possible and when the eventual understeer kick's in and you are now pointing as if you wont make the bend, you back-off (or leftfoot brake on the loose or wet. But not on the road unless you really know what you are doing!!) and the back end kicks out and point's the nose in the general direction you wanted to go.
It's a real balancing act and takes time to master, feeling a little skittish at first, but once mastered, bring great enjoyment to your driving.
Not that I am saying it should be mastered or evn used on the road.
Obviously, the rest of the car need's to be up to it too. Use the old term "you can't polish a T*rd"
Only use good gear, I find Minispares stuff is up to it and has not failed me yet. Stay away from bling!!
Hope this helps.
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blickling
Member
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Posted: Thursday March 20th, 2008 10:03 am |
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| Many thanks littledude, could'nt ask for more. Richard.
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shaddy
MCR Member
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Posted: Friday April 4th, 2008 08:50 pm |
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hi just fitted neg camber front and back with caster on the front as well any ideas on the best set up?
cheers
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chillbean
MCR Committee
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Posted: Tuesday April 8th, 2008 03:34 pm |
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Hi, I have not changed the caster at the front, but there is now 1.2 degrees negative camber at the front and about 0.5 degrees negative at the rear. Some friends have theirs set at 1.5 negative at the rear. The rear wheels look almost vertical from the rear of the car.
My Spi was set up by my local mini specialist Pat Healy who has built and prepared cars for the Mini seven series and the Mighty minis. Its much better now on the twisty stuff  Last edited on Tuesday April 8th, 2008 03:35 pm by chillbean |
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