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Graham Bichard
Member
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Posted: Thursday September 6th, 2007 02:29 pm |
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I'm sure there must be someone out there who can help me with my suspension question, so here it is!
I've fitted adjsta ride suspension all round, with new rubber cones on the rear to my 99 MPI (what a hell of a job it was doing that, but thats another story!). I'm going to run it around for a few weeks to let everything settle down but then want to adjust it to sit 'four square'. I'm not after lowering it at the front (too many speed bumps around here), but will end up lowering the rear to square up the stance.
But what is the measurement I should be looking for (floor to centre of the wheel arches)? And is it worth faffing around with the measurement with me in the car (i.e. setting it up with the driver in). The car is used 80% of the time with just me in - or is that being too anal?!?
Anyway, hope someone can help.
Cheers
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Graham Bichard
Member
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Posted: Thursday September 6th, 2007 02:39 pm |
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Another question - has anyone got any experience with restoration ramps? Thinking of buying a pair.
(http://www.restorationramps.com.uk)
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taffy1967
Member
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Posted: Thursday September 6th, 2007 03:51 pm |
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Graham Bichard wrote:
I'm sure there must be someone out there who can help me with my suspension question, so here it is!
I've fitted adjsta ride suspension all round, with new rubber cones on the rear to my 99 MPI (what a hell of a job it was doing that, but thats another story!). I'm going to run it around for a few weeks to let everything settle down but then want to adjust it to sit 'four square'. I'm not after lowering it at the front (too many speed bumps around here), but will end up lowering the rear to square up the stance.
But what is the measurement I should be looking for (floor to centre of the wheel arches)? And is it worth faffing around with the measurement with me in the car (i.e. setting it up with the driver in). The car is used 80% of the time with just me in - or is that being too anal?!?
Anyway, hope someone can help.
Cheers
I used to measure mine from the floor to the very edge of the sills.
Yes stop being so anal, get it all set-up right unladen because you wouldn't check you're tyre pressures whilst you or someone else is sitting in there would you?
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taffy1967
Member
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Posted: Thursday September 6th, 2007 03:52 pm |
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Graham Bichard wrote:
Another question - has anyone got any experience with restoration ramps? Thinking of buying a pair.
(http://www.restorationramps.com.uk)
Don't know and that link doesn't work.
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hanlminiman
MCR Member
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Posted: Thursday September 6th, 2007 05:57 pm |
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| try .co.uk
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hanlminiman
MCR Member
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Posted: Thursday September 6th, 2007 06:01 pm |
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| I found it best to set up at 12.5" from wheel centre to arch but that was for rallying. If you want a lower ride then adjust down. Have you improved shock absorbers? Don't forget to adjust jacked up and allow suspension to settle before getting it absolutely right.
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taffy1967
Member
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Posted: Thursday September 6th, 2007 06:54 pm |
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hanlminiman wrote:
try .co.uk
Thanks buddy, I couldn't see the wood for the trees there.
Anyway yes the ramps look fantastic, but the frames look a bit complex to me?
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DaveShreeve
Administrator
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Posted: Thursday September 6th, 2007 10:29 pm |
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Graham Bichard wrote: Another question - has anyone got any experience with restoration ramps? Thinking of buying a pair.
(http://www.restorationramps.com.uk)
Haven't used them myself but seem to remember they, or something very similar, featured in a Practical Classics group test. As I remember they were quite happy with safety aspects as long as you considered the height acceptable. Their only gripe was the amount of space to store the unit when not in use if you were unable to use them as a parking space. As an alternative you could try the Hamer: http://hamercarlift.com/ now also distributed by Frost's.
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Graham Bichard
Member
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Posted: Saturday September 8th, 2007 08:59 pm |
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Thanks for the advise guys, just a couple of questions:
Taffy, what measurement did you have to the sills (and you're right - I am thinking about it too much ref the laden/unladen thing! And doesn't everyone check their tyre pressures like that?!!!)
Halminiman, I've got the standard Sports Pack Koni's fitted, and I'm not planning to change them soon - they're in okay nick!
Dave, the hamer car lift would be great, but out of my price range I'm afraid! I too first saw the restoration ramps in Practical Classics mag. I was just wondering if anyone had used them with a mini. I'm a bit worried, not by the approach angle (after all thats on of their selling point, but whether the sills would ground out before the front/rear wheels were seated. I suppose I could always get a tape measure out! And storage for me shouldn't be too much of a problem for me (only a single garage, but a big shed!). Appologies for the bad link!
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DaveShreeve
Administrator
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Posted: Saturday September 8th, 2007 10:58 pm |
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Graham Bichard wrote: Dave, the hamer car lift would be great, but out of my price range I'm afraid! I too first saw the restoration ramps in Practical Classics mag. I was just wondering if anyone had used them with a mini. I'm a bit worried, not by the approach angle (after all thats on of their selling point, but whether the sills would ground out before the front/rear wheels were seated. I suppose I could always get a tape measure out! And storage for me shouldn't be too much of a problem for me (only a single garage, but a big shed!). Appologies for the bad link!
Graham, which of Restoration Ramps products were you looking at? I presume from the above it's the Ezup system. If so the Hamer is obviously out. However comparing a finished 12ft Restoration system with the Hamer there's not that much difference. Looking at the Ezup system I can also see why you were asking about clearance, I couldn't see any problem with the 12ft system
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taffy1967
Member
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Posted: Sunday September 9th, 2007 12:02 am |
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Taffy, what measurement did you have to the sills (and you're right - I am thinking about it too much ref the laden/unladen thing! And doesn't everyone check their tyre pressures like that?!!!)
I'll have to check because it's been years since I last made any adjustments and I just went by the ride height recommendations that were listed in a very early issue of Mini Magazine.
To be honest I set the ride height to take into account speed humps, the bad roads in my area and the fact our Mini really needed more ground clearance because for many years we fitted roof bars and a large roof box when we used it for family camping holidays and camping at Mini shows.
So I don't know if you'd want to set yours to the same height as we set ours and I do know that the Koni dampers that Sportspack models got were adjustable. But they were generally set to the softest setting at the factory and are of the type that have to be removed from the car to adjust.
Oh and I always check my tyre pressures with the car unladen.
Last edited on Sunday September 9th, 2007 12:04 am by taffy1967 |
Graham Bichard
Member
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Posted: Sunday September 9th, 2007 07:33 pm |
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We must share the same council mentality Taffy - the bloody speed bumps around here are huge! Even worse, half of them are the type that just have three blobs of cement spaced across the road. I have to position the car so the wheels go over the humps and the exhaust goes over the gap to stop the exhaust grounding out badly! And to make matters worse they aren't progress inclines - it's like driving up a kerb. I've lost count of the number of times impatient drivers have overtaken me on the speed bumps!
Hence the reason I'm not really interested in lowering the car. I will be lowering the rear but only to bring it level with the front. As for the Koni's being adjustable I thought that was for damping rate (stiffness/compression ratio, however you want to describe it). Surely dropping the level of the car will just cause the standard length damper to 'bottom out', so to speak (i.e. most of the damper rod is used)? And can't you get yellow Koni sport dampers which are shorter to cure this very problem or did I dream this up? Regardless, I'm not after lowering or stiffening just getting it to sit level, not like a 70's hot rod!
So I'm still looking out for suggestions for measurements.
Dave, it is the ezup's I was looking at (about £215). Like I said I was wondering if by the time the front wheels are fully forward
a) the rear wheels would be on/against the ramp therefore stopping me from detatching the ramp (or the other ways around if reversed on) and
b) with the wheels fully seated whether the sills would be touching against the ramps because of the short wheelbase.
It's a long time since I did my triganomitry (can't even spell it these days!) so was hoping someone would have put a mini on them. I might even get the gear selector rod seal changed if I did get a pair!
Any thoughts?
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taffy1967
Member
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Posted: Monday September 10th, 2007 10:22 pm |
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Yes Graham I meant that with the Koni's that they can be adjusted to alter the firmness and not to alter the actual ride height. Only Hi-Lo's and Adjusta-Rides etc enable that unless you cut chunks off the cones.
If you lower the ride height a fair bit (dump it down), then I know you can get lowered Spax adjustable dampers which are required so you don't damage a standard set.
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DaveShreeve
Administrator
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Posted: Tuesday September 11th, 2007 09:04 pm |
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Careful lowering the rear. Minis have always been higher at the rear and the steering geometry takes this into account as standard. I seem to remember 3/4 inch being quoted as difference front to rear at end of sills. Front cones usually sink more so correcting this wouldn't be a problem.
Shocks for lowered suspension - check it out. You can go lower on some 'standard' aftermarket shocks than the lowered variety. As Spax do both it's obviously horses for courses if your using this brand. I think you'll find the info either at the minispares or calverst websites.
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Graham Bichard
Member
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Posted: Wednesday September 12th, 2007 06:49 am |
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Dave,
You learn something new every day! Didn't know about the rear intentionally being higher than the front/steering geometry thing. I'll set the car up accordingly, and I'll be getting the geometry checked again afterward.
But what measurement should I be looking for at the front? It looks like its on stilts at the minute.
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DaveShreeve
Administrator
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Posted: Wednesday September 12th, 2007 12:34 pm |
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| Couldn't tell you but I'll check Rover workshop manual later and see if anything's quoted. It seems to be one of those things that has trouble getting into print! Your description definitely sounds as though things are rather high, probably got a good chunk of positive camber on the front as well. Reading between the lines it sounds as though the hi-los were fitted straight out of the box and your now looking for the correct measurements.
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DaveShreeve
Administrator
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Posted: Wednesday September 12th, 2007 08:43 pm |
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Knew I'd regret taking this on! Having gone through all my info it seems dry cars work on the basis of 'if you assemble standard parts, you get the standard ride height'
The only figures I can find are for hydrolastic cars in a '67 manual and the ERA turbo in the '84-'92 manual.
Early hydro Front 13+/-1/4inch, Rear 13 1/2+/-1/4inch
Later Front 12 5/8+/-1/4inch, Rear 13 1/8+/-1/4inch
ERA(new) Front 14 1/2+/-1/4inch, Rear 14+/-1/4inch
ERA(settled) Front and Rear 12 1/2 - 13inch
All measurements wheel centre to arch. Looking at the above I'd suggest aiming for the ERA 12 1/2 - 13 inch, slightly higher on the rear. As the ERA used 165/60R13's, your 175/50R13's should run with slightly more clearance than the ERA. Then suck it and see and adjust as you feel necessary.
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Graham Bichard
Member
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Posted: Thursday September 13th, 2007 07:00 am |
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Cheers Dave,
You're spot on with your assessment about the hi-lo's. I set them approximately to standard length when fitting and am now looking to set the car up correctly. It is a little high at the rear due to new rubbers cones being used, but thanks to you I now know why the rear sits high as standard.
Is it any wonder Rover/BL etc went out of business - 'if you assemble standard parts, you get the standard ride height'. I changed my brake hoses recently only to discover the bleed nipple on the LHR was a different size to the RHR! They absolutely look to be the originals so can only assume its a case of what ever is to hand!
That must be why we love these little cars! (remind me of that next tie I'm skinning my knuckles in the engine bay would you!).
Once again thanks for all your help.
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taffy1967
Member
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Posted: Friday September 14th, 2007 11:55 am |
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I'm pretty sure I've read that the ERA Mini Turbo got special rebound buffer buttons fitted to the rear springs/donuts.
So they prevented the rear suspension bottoming out and causing the tyres to foul the inner arches.
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hawaiianblue
Member
| Joined: | Saturday June 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 214 |
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Posted: Saturday September 15th, 2007 10:16 pm |
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If i were you i would fit new rubber cones on the front too, it makes the suspension actually work, and soak up the bumps!
If you have new cones though you're best to set the adjustable trumpets to roughly the standard length then drive the car about for about a month to let the new cones settle.
I cant remember the measurement i used on mine, but basically i just set it slightly above what looked about right, to allow for cone deformation with age. I chose a measurment with a tape measure from the ground to the wheel arch, to what i thought looked about right for the front and for the rear. Then i measured the actual heights for each corner, and wrote them down. From these measurments i then used that to work out how much i had to adjust the trumpet length to reach what i had decided as the 'best looking' factory height. It will look really high once you've jacked the weight off though and will take some time for the suspension to re-settle again if they're new cones.
It's no a precise science really, the car will always settle the longer the cones have been on there, it often pays to jack the wheels off the floor every 6 months and leave it for a couple of hours, the cones then expand again and you'll be blessed with a softer ride for a few more months. (two post ramps are ideal for this!) Eventually the cones lose their elasticity though and just get squashed.
All cars sit slightly higher at the back, not just minis, this is because the front generally carries the weight of the engine, where as the rear axle mostly has little weight on it, but it has to alow for when you load the boot up and have people sitting in the back, the car then sits roughly level.
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