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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Sunday September 30th, 2007 12:35 pm |
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| Apparently, I was still half sleeping... The 1275GT is mentioned on pages 4 and 5 in the pdf file. Don't know exactly which DAM gearbox casings were used for the very last 1275GT's...
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Bruce
Member
| Joined: | Saturday May 20th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 89 |
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Posted: Sunday September 30th, 2007 12:54 pm |
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| Ok - my fault for not looking closely enough . Grab 40 winks while you can - these minis need lots of TLC and time . Regards Bruce
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Gray
MCR Member
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Posted: Wednesday October 31st, 2007 10:39 pm |
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bump. Too good a list to get buried!!
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618AOG
Member
| Joined: | Tuesday March 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 205 |
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Posted: Monday December 31st, 2007 09:02 am |
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Mini4Ever wrote:
Mini Mk I
22A104: Cone synchro magic wand rubber joint
I'm pretty sure this was the very early magnesium casing box. I have seen one!
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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Monday December 31st, 2007 10:05 am |
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Although we weren't sure, the 22A104 casing that radfordman Nick has didn't look as if it was made of magnesium. It didn't have this yellowish look as like those magnesium Minilites have. It actually looked rather similar to the gray of any later casing.
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618AOG
Member
| Joined: | Tuesday March 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 205 |
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Posted: Monday December 31st, 2007 02:09 pm |
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Mini Mk I
22A104: Cone synchro magic wand rubber joint
22A363: Cone synchro magic wand rubber joint
22G68: A type (22A381 laygear) or B type (22G231 laygear) magic wand rubber joint (*) (1)
22G382: B type (22G231 laygear) magic wand rubber joint (*)
I'm just wondering why there are two numbers for early 850 cone boxes. The baulk rings arrived in September 1962 along with the 1100 and the B type gears in Sept 64. B Type gears don't fit in an A type casing.
I'm trying to think of another significant difference in the early cone boxes apart from the magnesium casings.
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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Monday December 31st, 2007 02:44 pm |
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| I'm not sure whether you have checked the pdf file with the complete list that is about halfway at page 1 of this thread, but there you will find that there are actually four casing numbers that used cone synchro: 22A104, 22A145, 22A363 (existance to be confirmed) and 22G68. The latter was also used for A-type and B-type gearing, which suggests that cone, A-type and B-type gears can be put in any 3-synchro box: AKD3509 lists all three types for 997 Cooper as being used in a 22G68 casing.
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618AOG
Member
| Joined: | Tuesday March 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 205 |
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Posted: Tuesday January 1st, 2008 12:57 pm |
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Mini4Ever wrote:
B-type gears can be put in any 3-synchro box:
I'm not so sure about that. From memory the first motion shaft bearing was different (smaller diameter?) on early ones. This was why you can't put a straight cut gearset into an early case as the gear won't fit through the hole in the casing.
Anyway, anything other than a post 64 B Type box is really a waste of time. The cone syncro was rubbish and the A type boxes used to wear out the selector forks out with a vengeance. Keeping one is really depriving the scrap metal inustry of valuable alloy.........
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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Tuesday January 1st, 2008 03:49 pm |
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618AOG wrote: I'm not so sure about that. From memory the first motion shaft bearing was different (smaller diameter?) on early ones. This was why you can't put a straight cut gearset into an early case as the gear won't fit through the hole in the casing.
That will be the case for any 3-synchro box! And still you can get 3-synchro S/C gear sets. The 4th gear should not be fitted throught the bearing hole but from above, together with the mainshaft in one go (not easy, but it can be done). See also this topic
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618AOG
Member
| Joined: | Tuesday March 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 205 |
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Posted: Tuesday January 1st, 2008 05:42 pm |
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Mini4Ever wrote:
The 4th gear should not be fitted throught the bearing hole but from above, together with the mainshaft in one go (not easy, but it can be done).
WHAT??????!!!
Have you ever built a Mini gearbox?? It is IMPOSSIBLE to fit the first and third motion shafts in one go!! Don't talk such nonsense, please!
By the way I've fitted S/C gearsets into 3 syncro boxes. The last one being into a 970S box.......
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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Tuesday January 1st, 2008 06:32 pm |
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I did several 3-synchro S/C gearboxes myself in this way, including 22G333 (both 970S and 1275S) and 22A1522 boxes. The 970S box was actually fitted with a genuine Special Tuning S/C C/R set (for which all gears are marked with their part numbers by the way) and the other's where fitted with S/C C/R gear sets from Mini Sport or Mini Spares.
Note that I never said that it is easy. As you state correctly, the 22 teeth S/C C/R 4th gear / 1st motion shaft (22G430) does not go through the bearing hole. The 20 teeth S/C non-C/R 4th gear / 1st motion shaft (22G427) might however go through. This I can't know because I never had such a non-C/R S/C gear set.
If you know of a better way to fit the gears into place, I would be eager to learn about your approach.
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618AOG
Member
| Joined: | Tuesday March 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 205 |
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Posted: Tuesday January 1st, 2008 07:26 pm |
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So let me get this right........
You assemble the first motion shaft onto the third motion shaft and fit the whole lot in one go?
That I would LOVE to see!
Maybe you cut a big hole in the casing above the double roller bearing and weld it back in again?
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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Tuesday January 1st, 2008 08:07 pm |
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Got your point now. I guess my English needs improving.
No, I don't assemble the lot together and than fit it in. That won't work. What I do is basically the reverse of what I described here. That means that I take the mainshaft with 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears and 3/4th synchro hub etc fitted together in one hand and the 1st motion shaft with the small bearing inside in the other hand. Then, I put the mainshaft assembly in such that it is no yet fully resting on the forks yet but the 1st gear end is far down and the 3rd gear end is far up. Then, the 1st motion gear goes in (with a lot of fiddling). The idea is that the mainshaft end goes into the 1st motion gear hole (where the small bearing sits) while putting everything downwards. Finally the forks and plungers are tightened up and the double and single row bearings fitted.
The first time that I followed this procedure, it took me almost half a day but I knew it was possible as I got the gears out that way. Now that I have done this a few times, things go a lot easier but still require some patience to get it done in one attempt!
Last edited on Tuesday January 1st, 2008 08:18 pm by Mini4Ever |
618AOG
Member
| Joined: | Tuesday March 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 205 |
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Posted: Tuesday January 1st, 2008 10:00 pm |
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Aaaaaah............I see!
I think you can fit the 4th gear first (no bearing), pull it right back until the synchro teeth are against the casing and then lower the mainshaft in.
I only used the original BMC S/C gearsets though.
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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Wednesday January 2nd, 2008 07:33 am |
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Yes, that's the idea. But, just to make the story complete: It's not the dog teeths that form the problem, they go through the bearing hole without problems (at least for casings using the 2A3709 bearing, which include for sure the 22G382, 22G68, 22G190, 22G333, 22A1288 and 22A1522 casings). It's the gear teeths of the 22G430 (S/C C/R) that won't go through. With the 22G430, you will not be able to pull it through the hole any further than the way it is positioned when it is finally fitted in the fully assembled box. Since the 22G427 (S/C non-C/R with 22G335 laygear) has less teeths, that one might go through completely without problems (but I don't know this as I never had such a set).
Last edited on Wednesday January 2nd, 2008 07:44 am by Mini4Ever |
radfordman
Member
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Posted: Friday January 4th, 2008 05:22 pm |
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I was asked by Mini4ever to look at the diameter of the 1st motion shaft bearing on some early boxes that he and I had identified in my workshop. I can say that it's pretty difficult to measure the bearing diameter with the input gear in the way. It's not much easier if only the 1st motion shaft is sticking through the bearing. However, I am sure that they are all the same diameter.
I then checked the parts books from AKD1153, 3rd edition Mini dated 1961, AKD1932 Mini Cooper 997 dated 1961 and AKD3478 Cooper S supplement from 1963. All these list 2A3709 as the 1st motion shaft bearing. I believe that this was in use on all 3 syn boxes throughout production.
I have only ever built SC boxes in the way Mini4ever describes, that is, putting the 1st motion in from inside the gearbox. Not easy, but as far as I knew it was the only way. Today I re-read Vizard's first book and the section on quietening 3 syn SC boxes. As well as taking a few thou off the 2nd and third, he suggests removing enough from the 4th gear so that it fits through from outside the casing ! That would have the double benefit of making the box quieter and easier to put together.
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Gray
MCR Member
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Posted: Monday February 25th, 2008 07:28 pm |
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| Bump, found it again
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radfordman
Member
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Posted: Monday February 25th, 2008 08:21 pm |
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This is a superb piece of research by Mini4ever. It deserves bumping up from time to time.
Also I think 618AOG owes Mini4ever a grovelling apology for his comments:-
'Have you ever built a Mini gearbox' and 'Stop talking nonsense'.
Just my opinion.
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lokie
Member
| Joined: | Monday July 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 14 |
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Posted: Monday April 14th, 2008 10:28 pm |
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Trawling through this thread has identified my 22G232 layshaft as equivalent to the modern 22G110, many thanks for that. Can anyone help with my 1st/2nd gear which has stamped on it 22G432 and engraved (badly) 22G439, the box is a 22G333 out of a 1275S with Hardy Spicers.
Thanks in advance !
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Gray
MCR Member
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Posted: Monday April 14th, 2008 11:47 pm |
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| A few handy numbers here. http://www.heritagegarage.com/catalog/gearbox/11.htm
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