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dgear1984
Member
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 09:19 am |
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hiya
as some of you may know i am attempting to build a cooper s replica.
The car i am starting with is a 1967 standard car on wet suspension.
The suspension was "up" when i got the car so would assume the hydro is working fine but for how long.
Was intending to keep this replica near to a standard 67 s car but seeing as it is a replica proberbly with a mixture of new and old parts from many places it is not totally crusial.
Seeing as hydro units seem to be rare and s units even rarer would people recommend i change over to dry when i rebuild the car to save any problems when in the future??
Peoples opinions please
thanks dave
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minorparts
Member
| Joined: | Friday March 23rd, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 807 |
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 09:49 am |
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I suppose it is a matter of personal preference. I much prefer the ride comfort of the 'wet' Minis so would never change mine to dry, however I respect that others feel differently and certainly you are a little vulnerable to a displacer going pop miles from home if you use the car a lot. I have had a displacer go twice in 35 years of 'wet' Mini ownership which is a price I am prepared to pay. Others might feel differently. Both times it happened with the car parked outside the house so I wasn't really inconvenienced! Luckily!!
Of course if you are wanting to obtain 4 genuine 'S' displacers for your car, that may not be so easy....
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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 10:08 am |
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minorparts wrote: Of course if you are wanting to obtain 4 genuine 'S' displacers for your car, that may not be so easy....
It took me only 8 years to get a set of standard NOS ones together and they weren't exactly cheap... Guess that says it all, not?
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minorparts
Member
| Joined: | Friday March 23rd, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 807 |
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 10:57 am |
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As always, you can only buy what is for sale! It's a matter of being in the right place at the right time.
I think there was recently a pair of 'S' subframes and set of displacers (secondhand of course) for sale on the board...
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RogerBlake
MCR Member
| Joined: | Monday October 2nd, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 31 |
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 12:03 pm |
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I have recently (and reluctantly) changed my wet stystem to a high specification dry system on my MkII Cooper (Heritage frames, hi-lo's, competition cones, self-adjusting dampers and adjustable camber brackets etc.) ; the ride may not be quite as smooth on undulating roads but it is quite civilised compared to my old 1993 Cooper with dry suspension. It certainly feels more secure when a spirited driving style is taken.....I did this on the recommendation of the Mini Specialists (Bill Richards) whilst I was having the engine and 'box rebuilt. Apart from the cost and deviation from original specification, I do not regret it. To be fair this is also a brand new installation replacing an old one.
However I would have left it wet if I was only using it for occasional use or shows only; I didn't like going from original, but I do intend to use the car a fair bit and retain it long-term. I would also have retained the old system if I could be sure I could get decent quality displacers in the future. Unless some company starts remanufacturing these items, then surely there is going to be a diminishing stock, with people stock-piling any decent ones they can find and/or all the rubbish going on ebay no doubt.
I also advertised my complete system; good frames and displacers etc. for sale; I still have them. Not sure whether to retain them just in case, but I think it unlikely I would refit them unless new or refurbished displacers become available.
Best of luck!!
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taffy1967
Member
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 12:22 pm |
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I believe Mini Mail have stocks of standard Hydrolasic displacers on their site?
But as it's you're car then it's really up to you and if the car is going to see a fair bit of use, then going dry will ensure reliability without the hassle.
Plus haven't most standard Mini Coopers been fitted with Cooper S disc brakes for maximum efficiency anyway? Surely only little used concourse examples would retain the original fade prone set up?
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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 12:46 pm |
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minorparts wrote: Of course if you are wanting to obtain 4 genuine 'S' displacers for your car, that may not be so easy....
Just need to come back on this. As far as I know all standard S's had standard 21A1477 (pre December 65) or 21A2008 (post December 65) displacers. Only cars built or modified for competition may have had different displacers from the competitions department. The silver band displacers, which are often referred to as THE 'S' displacer type was also an optional item as far as I know. These are 10 times harder to find than the standard ones... In my 14-year Mini-life I have only found one NOS example of such a silver band unit, which the owner did not want to sell for any money...
Added: One of my later postings below corrects the above statements!
A possible alternative to the hydrolastic suspension might be the 'smooth-a-ride' set of Mini Sport, which gives a similar softer ride compared to standard dry suspension which is much stiffer.
Last edited on Monday June 4th, 2007 06:48 pm by Mini4Ever |
taffy1967
Member
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 02:53 pm |
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Yes the Moulton/Mini Sport "Smooth-A-Ride" system will provide better ride comfort, but at the expense of the handling and from what I've read you're sure to end up in knots trying to push it around the bends at the kind of speeds usually associated with fast Minis.
TBH later rubber springs are a fair bit softer than springs of old. Okay their more likely to sag as a result, but Mini Spares claim to sell genuine Moulton/Dunlop springs that should go the distance and not collapse after a few hundred miles. As has been the case with some cheap pattern copies that hit the market recently.
So if ride comfort is the main factor then go the "Smooth-A-Ride" route, but if you're the sort of driver who wants great handling and would have fitted competition bump stops and dampers up front to improve the handling on you're hydrolastic Mini, then fit genuine rubber springs. Then you can also fit hi-lo's or adjusta-ride suspension, adjustable gas dampers and fine tune the suspension to you're hearts content. 
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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 03:10 pm |
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You are right. I would actually combine the "Smooth-A-Ride" system with negative lower arms, adjustable tie rods, adjustable gaz shocks and negative kits for the rear to get the handling back under control. But maybe that starts to add up all too much 
As for a competition setting, you could even fit those competition rubber cones which are much harder than the standard ones and will certainly not sag (but use them only at the front as they make no sense on the rear / will make the rear jump around too much). Great handling but comfort is really gone then unless you have very good seats  Last edited on Monday June 4th, 2007 03:15 pm by Mini4Ever |
taffy1967
Member
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 03:26 pm |
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If you're going to fit adjustable dampers with a "Smooth-A-Ride" suspension kit, then there's really no point in bothering fitting the "Smooth-A-Ride" springs because the kit itself comes with standard dampers and fitting firmer ones will surely work against the softer ride characteristics.
So for best handling just fit standard rubber springs and there's a competition type on the Mini Spares website. But I've heard their still waiting to get them in stock and have been for quite some time.
I'd feel confident with their standard springs and with all the other suspension tweaks it will handle very well and adjustable suspension will allow you to compensate for any sagging later on too.
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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 04:59 pm |
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taffy1967 wrote: then there's really no point in bothering fitting the "Smooth-A-Ride" springs
Shame on me  Of course you should use the shocks included in the set. Mixed up two settings. Please apologise for my stupidity. The 'wish list' should have been: 'Smooth-A-Ride' kit + negative lower arms + adjustable tie rods + negative kits for the rear.
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618AOG
Member
| Joined: | Tuesday March 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 205 |
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 05:02 pm |
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If you don't mind the hassle - go wet (with new front to rear pipes and copperslip on the unions!) with the bump stops and a pair of Konis on the front. Displacers aren't hard to change (carry one as a spare) and the bump stops mean that the car won't collapse totally if one does go 'pop'.
For convenience, just use dry stuff. I've never found the ride on a 10 inch wheel dry Mini to be terrible. Cooper S displacers are different to standard Mini and Cooper units. They certainly didn't heave and pitch as much. A shame the Austin 1100 units don't fit as there are plenty of those about.
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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 06:46 pm |
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618AOG wrote: Cooper S displacers are different to standard Mini and Cooper units.
Since I was convinced that this was not the case I did some research in AKD3509, AKD5313 and C-AKD5099. Well, I stand corrected as there were indeed different units for Cooper and S but only after December 1965 (exceptions are the Special Tuning items). Now I also understand my believe as my S has 21A1477 number markings hit into the metal casings of its hydrolastic units, which is correct as the car was built in 1964. I may come up with a detailled table if I get all the info sorted...Last edited on Monday June 4th, 2007 08:39 pm by Mini4Ever |
Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Monday June 4th, 2007 08:40 pm |
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| It took a while but attached is the table that I could come up with based on the info I have. Hope it is helpful to all of us! Attachment: HydrolasticUnits.pdf (Downloaded 95 times) Last edited on Monday June 4th, 2007 09:32 pm by Mini4Ever |
dgear1984
Member
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Posted: Friday July 13th, 2007 09:02 pm |
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who are mini mail?
Did cooper s have differnt hydo helper springs?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/mini-cooper-s-riley-wolseley-hydrolastic-springs_W0QQitemZ220130395506QQihZ012QQcategoryZ43122QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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fyp741c
Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 142 |
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Posted: Friday July 13th, 2007 09:22 pm |
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I have very fond memories of Tim (founder of Minimal) when he ran his shop on lower Richmond road (London, just over Putney Bridge) -- this was in the early to mid eighties
Originally it was beneath the south London mini centre but the moved over the road to a dedicated shop (I think it used to be an antique shop) after a few years
He always had time for a chat and natter on anything mini, in fact the unspoken etiquette was that if a customer was already talking to him you just stood and waited your turn, knowing the then you had him to yourself, with his impeccable manners and service
In fact I sold him the shell of my written off mini cooper 998 and remember him telling me he was going to move to the sticks
recently I had the pleasure of purchasing some bits of him from his Minimail venture
(he did not remember me)
james
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dgear1984
Member
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Posted: Friday July 13th, 2007 09:28 pm |
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| do you have phone number / website etc?
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fyp741c
Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 142 |
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Posted: Friday July 13th, 2007 09:30 pm |
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| http://www.minimail.co.uk/index.jsp
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Mini4Ever
MCR Member
| Joined: | Saturday March 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Netherlands |
| Posts: | 502 |
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Posted: Friday July 13th, 2007 10:28 pm |
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dgear1984 wrote: Did cooper s have differnt hydo helper springs?
Well, yes and no...
All pre December 1966 cars originally have spring 21A1566 and all post December 1966 cars had 21A1806. The difference is the length of the spring. The 21A1806 was also a Special Tuning option for the pre December 1966 cars in case their ride height was raised (as was for instance done for rallying purposes).
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WLP
Member
| Joined: | Thursday February 28th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 21 |
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Posted: Monday March 3rd, 2008 03:21 pm |
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| Just wondering, i have a 998 cooper hydro, are the displacer's the same as on COOPER S?
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